A day with Robbert Dijkgraaf: 'When you’re a caretaker minister, you govern as if every day is your last' - Erasmus Magazine (2024)

What is your role at meetings like this?

“Yes, that’s an interesting question. In part, I have a ceremonial role to play: the government is receiving the report. I think that’s very important. At the same time, my role is to encourage all parties here. As a minister, I sit at the top of the hierarchy, but who should do what this report recommends? Surely it’s the research universities, universities of applied sciences, the Dutch Research Council and everyone else who is involved.”

You’re a caretaker minister, and it’s already the end of March. Did you think it would take this long?

“Honestly, yes. The elections were at the end of November, which meant there would be no new government before Christmas. I knew that we’d make it to this point, more or less. But I did start writing plans for March and April in my diary in pencil.”

What has this situation changed for you?

“I never quite felt like I was really a caretaker minister. I even found it a bit liberating.”

He is referring to the space that has been created relative to the coalition agreement. Earlier, he called the fall of the government a defeat.

“We had the great fortune of being able to put quite a lot of things into action before the government fell. The extra money for education and research, the basic student grant … A number of big things were done before 1 July last year. I felt like: wow, I’ve put the plants in the garden, now I have to take care of them for a while.”

Will the next government do the same?

“That, of course, is the big concern. There’s no way of knowing, but every day that the plants are watered and can continue to grow undisturbed is a good day. Someone said: when you’re a caretaker minister, you govern as if every day is your last. That gives you focus.”

And on this ‘last day’ as Minister, you’re receiving a report and presenting an award to the lecturer of the year. Why?

“At this stage, you’re also trying to pass on your ideas – not only to your successor, but also to the sector. Consider, for example, the equal value of all forms of education. I try to push that at every opportunity. And you can do that just by being there.”

Do you think that issues like equal opportunities and discrimination will be in good hands with the next government?

“I don’t know what kind of government we will have, and I shouldn’t say anything about that either, but I have learned something about equal opportunities. We often talk about the range of education and the differences between academic education, professional higher education and senior secondary vocational education, but that’s not all that matters. When you start zooming in, you see big differences between study programmes as well. And not all lecturers are alike: one is mindful of giving equal opportunities, while another might not even see the problem, and so on.”

What do you mean by that?

“That as a ministry, you have to pay attention. Between the Ministry and the student, there are at least five or six layers. Now, that’s an important part of equal opportunities: how are things designed for the individual student? Poorer opportunities add up. You might have a migrant background, your parents might not speak Dutch, you might have to make ends meet … To help such students, we have to do something extra.”

“Equal opportunities doesn’t mean saying that the door is open for everyone. If you have to come from far away, sometimes you don’t even reach the door. If there are obstacles in your way, someone has to help you overcome them. That requires targeted policies, and yes, that’s really tough. Everyone has the best intentions, even in politics and ministries. But ultimately, we depend on lecturers and staff who say: I am going to make a difference.”

But some people really do depend on you. You’ve apologised for indirect discrimination, but you still haven’t demanded that the Education Executive Agency (DUO) come up with more solid evidence before taking back the basic student grant.

“I find the whole process painful. We’ve gone through a number of red traffic lights. When selecting students for home checks, there were preconceived ideas. But we want to seriously redesign the checks, and we’re taking this on board.”

All DUO needs in court is a credible suspicion, while students needs solid evidence to refute that suspicion. That’s not balanced. Why don’t you think: I’ll change that before the PVV party takes control?

“The process is in motion, and there are good safeguards in place. There have been questions in the House of Representatives, but I feel that there’s very broad support to take the next steps.”

So you think that one party can’t stop that?

“No, I don’t think so. Who could be against making the system more just? My first debate was on the legal status of senior secondary vocational education students, and that bill passed unanimously. Sometimes, parties say you need to intervene more robustly, while others think things are moving too fast, but one thing is clear: things are moving. Just this morning, I was talking about it with the new government committee to combat racism and discrimination.”

When you became a minister, you said that sometimes – just like in academia – you have to wipe the whiteboard clean and ask: what are we doing? Were there enough times when you were able to do that?

“No, not enough. But I did it a few times, and I still like the idea. Legislation and policy are quite complicated. Everything takes a very long time and moves very slowly.”

Why weren’t you able to do that more often?

“As a minister, you’re handed all the books, so to speak, and we’re already up to chapter seven, or chapter three if you’re lucky, but we’re never at the beginning of the story. Things have already been implemented, policies are already in place, there’s already a coalition agreement or whatever. It’s sometimes difficult to explain such policies. When researchers tell me in an academic article what they do, my first question is: why do you do it? What is actually the question we’re answering? That’s what you want to hear first. In policy, something like that is difficult, and it’s also not part of the way ministries think.”

Slow progress is one of the major criticisms of your policies around internationalisation. You get that accusation a lot. Is that related to wiping the whiteboard clean?

“There was already a bill before the Senate, the Language and Accessibility Bill, and that’s exactly why I didn’t let it go ahead. I wanted to know: what problem are we solving? What does our thinking around internationalisation mean, other than calling for ‘more tools’ and ‘fewer students’? I didn’t get a good answer to that, so I said: sorry, I just want to think about it a bit longer. What are our goals, what are our resources and how do we want to set it up? It takes time to analyse it carefully step by step, but we did it anyway. That was really important.”